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I'm fairly frustrated with the dogs lately.  I'm definitely wondering why I thought they'd be a good idea.

First offm, we've been putting the dogs in an upstairs bedroom at night, since they like to spend the night waking us up in one way or another, and we're fucking sick of it.  Needless to say, they hate this, because it cuts into their ability to irritate mommy and daddy, and that's what they were put on earth to do.  So, they sit up in their bedroom, and thrash, and yowl, and scratch, and chew.

In about three days, Cappy has totally shredded two beds.  His bed and Clydes bed.  Inside these beds are foam cores, and Captain reduced them both to perhaps 5000 individual pieces of foam.  The degree of compulsive destructiveness is really amazing.  This is his MO though.  If he thinks it's “not fair” that he's been locked in a room, he starts tearing stuff up.  He's like a liberal, only a little smarter.  He doesn't care that his petulant destructiveness means he just goes into his crate...  He just wants to be clear that he's upset.

Now, as I blogged earlier, Clyde can open doors.  He's extended that skill to include “pull” doors, and has let himself and his brother out of their bedroom enough times that I had to take action.  So, at 2:00am, I find myself, power driver in hand, swapping doorhandles around, to put one with a lock on their room.  It's friggin ridiculous.

So, they're bad boys, they're selfish, they're not trying to help mommy and daddy at all, and I waste hours a day dealing with their crap.  Speaking of crap, that brings me to the last issue, which is that Clyde eats poop.  He loves it.  It's like yummy candy to him.  He actually prefers Cappy's poop, I guess cause we feed them different foods, and he likes a little variety.  Of course, we had to switch Cappy's food, cause he was throwing up the stuff we had been feeding them.  It's really a world of vomit and poop I live in, and I hate it.  Anyway, Clyde eats poop.  And in typical dog fashion, when I tell him “no” that just means “wait till daddy isn't around.”  I know that's his plan, too, cause I can see him go into poop stalking mode, and he's got his eyes locked on me, even when he heads for the poop, preparing to grab it and bolt if I try to stop him.  So, now we can't just let them outside to run around for an hour or two.  Now I have to go out there and watch them, and yell “NO” when Clyde picks up a turd and starts gumming it.  Of course, his standard response is to get all hunchy and hangdog, like I'm brutalizing and mistreating him by telling him not to eat shit.

This brings me to shock collars.  Every fucking site I read, every dog trainer I talk to, they all think shock collars are just AWFUL.  I tend to think they're just full of shit hippies.  Here's why:  The other night, Munk and I were playing WOW, Clyde was in his bed over by the TV...  Suddenly, Clyde yelped loudly, and ran over to hide by my feet.  He kept looking over at the TV in a suspicious manner.  I went over to check and see what had gone on, and I found one of the TV cables had been gnawed on.  Amazingly enough, it still worked, but it seems to have also taught Clyde a lesson.  He doesn't chew on wires anymore.  One good jolt, and he gets the fucking message.

So I have to ask, why don't I just get him a shock collar, let him out in the yard, and give him the impression that poop tastes like searing electrical pain?  The hippies warn that using a shock collar could teach dogs a negative association with things you don't intend.  But then again, they insist that if you correct a dog who's eating poop, you will only make them fear your hand, plus they'll just do it when you're not around.  So, I have to ask, what the hell is wrong with a shock collar?  Use it sparingly, only at the EXACT moment they do what they're not supposed to, and not only will they not learn to fear your hand, but they won't know where the shock is coming from, except the mouthfull of poop they just grabbed.  Can somebody refute this?  I don't know how these people think I'm gonna use a shock collar.  I'm not insane or cruel.  I'm not gonna say “sit, Clyde” then just lay into him if he doesn't sit.  I'm not just gonna fire it off every time he's doing something I don't want.  I'm going to isolate certain things he does that I don't want him to, things that occupy his focus, and I'm going to shock him when he does them.  I don't expect it to take more than a shock or two, based on his run in with the cable wires.

Whaddya think?

posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 11:41 AM

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# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 3/18/2005 3:30 PM ian, dog owner from 199.141.41.182

I would say the shock collar sounds like a bad idea but I dunno, I am a hippie.

My question is: how much exercise are they getting? Are you taking them on walks at all or they just run around the hizzy?

Jacob was always pretty destructive when he was younger but as long as I kept him tired, he'd be okay. Tired being one walk in the morning, one at lunchtimes, and the usually another in the evenings.



# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 3/18/2005 4:07 PM Jack from 24.9.81.240
They don't go for walks, but they do spend a lot of time wrestling and running around. The big problem with the poop eating, is we used to be able to let them out in they yard, and they'd run around for hours, and tire themselves out. Now I don't want to put Clyde out there, lest he gorge himself on poop.

It could be that he's already giving up on poop eating. He doesn't try to do it much anymore, but he may just see me there, and realize it's futile. Just now he wanted to go out, I let him out, and he just went out there, stared at me, then came back in. Cappy even took a dump, and he didn't bother to go over and check it. So, that could mean that he's learned, or that he's just waiting for the right moment. I assume the latter, since that's how they usually operate.

# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 3/18/2005 4:57 PM ian, dog owner from 24.9.54.48

The Jake likes poop too; its sick, and I'm sure he's embarrassed that I'm announcing it on the internet. To dissuade it, you might want to try the coprophagia pills, which i think they have at petsmart, though you'd need to give them to both the Cap and the Clyde.

# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 3/19/2005 8:52 AM dad from 67.86.96.186
I tried a shock collar once. Even on its lowest setting it scared the crap out of Casey.... to the point he just lost it and probably wasn't going to learn anything.
It was better on Louie who wasn't as fragile. I understand you have to crank them up to "nuculer" to get much of a reaction out of most hound dogs.
On the poop end of the problem: Can you just clean up the yard every day, or is Clyde taking them fresh out of the oven?
All the doggie experts say destructive behaviour like chewing beds, is not done out of vengeance, but rather anxiety. Makes it a bit tough to stop.

# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 3/19/2005 2:24 PM Jack from 24.9.81.240
Yeah, I could try the pills, or maybe just put them both on the same food. I feel like it's become more of a problem since Cap went on different food than Clyde. I think I'd really only need to give them to Cap, since Clyde seems to not be that interested in his own poop.

I don't think either of these guys are that upset by pain, but being startled might bother them. Clyde is actually not as tough as Cap, I don't think. He's more submissive, gets very dainty in the snow, etc. Still, they both thrash around and bite each other in the face, and Clyde is less likely to let out the shrieky whimper they do when they think somebody bit too hard.

Cleaning up the yard every day is possible, but not likely. I'm a pretty lazy person, and I think I might have married the only person in the world who's lazier than that. So it's not all that feasible. Even so, right out of the oven is when the poop are tastiest, I guess, and Clyde will actually sorta sniff at them as they fall, then go for them when Cap runs off.

I believe the anxiety thing, they get totally freaked out by being away from us. That's part of why they're up in that bedroom now, because we have to go away and leave them in the house with a sitter, so they'll need to be at least somewhat acclimated to it by then.

# re: Poop Eating, Door Opening, Bed Shredding... 4/28/2005 2:19 PM Jeanette from 209.216.156.34
I've personally have used a shock collar on a couple of my dogs. One responded so well on the lowest setting she ran in the house and hide in the bathroom for 3 hours. The other was shock 5-6 times in a one year span for the invisisble fence. I now do not have the dog. He turned on me, and only me. Not my husband, we think because I was the one home all the time. I have show shepherds, and since these two, I will never use it again. In the show ring they would run away from the fencing around the ring if it was white, due to the fact that the invisible fence flags where white. If you are happy with your food, try added a KELP tablet in each feeding. It helps the dog break down the protein in their food, so the poop won't taste so good. I've heard of the powder and pills as well that contain some type of acid. But is it harmfull for your dogs?

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